Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:54 pm?? ?Post subject: Freenode Policy Changes Forces Channels to Move/Rename
New policies concerning channel ownership is causing some stir amongst channel managers on this network which is primary in use as a base of realtime communication for open source projects. In short, the name in use of the channel must be "contingent on your group's ownership of that name, legally or informally" as the policy explains. If you have no rights over the channel name, you must begin the channel name with an extra #, for example ##foo instead of #foo.
The channel manager of #photography explains on his blog: "Yesterday, it was made known to me that channels had to be re-registered. I went to fill out the form (of which the URI was pasted to me in a /msg), and put all the pertinent info into the necessary fields (which seemed like most every field; there was no red star or bolding or anything else which would show priority)."
Within a half hour Lilo (admin on Freenode) messaged #photography's manager that #photography had to be moved to #foo (where foo is a domain under the TLD .com, .net or .org which the manager owns) or has to be moved to ##photography.
Lilo explains on the blog: "The problems occur when an external project comes to the network for the first time, and discovers that it has no control over the channels bearing its name. We want projects to be able to own their channels. We also want it to be easy to distinguish between official channels of some project or group, or unofficial channels which are run by somebody else."
The policies which were introduced a few months ago are now slowly being put into effect. Like the official channels #gentoo and #fedora, and ##slackware which is not an official channel. The channel #photography has since then been moved to #photogeeks.
Lilo ends, "I?’m sorry for the irritation factor involved; we did try to post the link to the policy document in a prominent place on the website, but sometimes it just doesn?’t occur to people that freenode is anything but the usual sort of IRC network. Apologies for the difficulties."
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Asmo
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
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Location: United States
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:38 pm?? ?Post subject:
Quote:
"The problems occur when an external project comes to the network for the first time, and discovers that it has no control over the channels bearing its name. We want projects to be able to own their channels. We also want it to be easy to distinguish between official channels of some project or group, or unofficial channels which are run by somebody else."
It's nice to see that IRC networks now "screw the little guy." Just because a project exists, it now means they get first preference? That's absurd! Just as an example, I've been using the name "codemastr" since 1996. I didn't register codemastr.com until about 2002. So now, if I had #codemastr since 1996, and in 2001 someone registered codemastr.com I have to give them my channel? Don't they understand how copyright works? Owning a domain doesn't mean you own a copyright. I've been using codemastr since 1996 (and I can prove it), so if someone registered codemastr.com in 2002, that doesn't mean they get the copyright, I still have it! And for that matter, I could even have a registered (legally binding) copyright on the name "codemastr" without ever buying a domain. Owning a domain has *nothing* to do with owning a copyright and the fact that freenode is making this assumption is horrible.
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-- codemastr
I highly doubt freenode will grow any bigger now that they have this new "policy." I actually see freenode losing a lot of users, I think this was a bad policy to be put into place.
_________________ IRCq
Owning a domain is the third listed in 'ownership' claims according to the policy. " Non-govermental organizations, government entities, corporations, businesses and individuals with legally valid claims" is first.
I guess yours would fall under that? =)
BTW, Freenode is always placing themself a bit outside the "IRC networks", as you can read from Lilo himself as well from that blog (its in my post as well "but sometimes it just doesn?’t occur to people that freenode is anything but the usual sort of IRC network").
In all the eyars I run www.IRC-Junkie.org, I only had a reply once from Freenode. Also in this case I bothered to email them, but I never get any reply at all. I reckon if they feel like not being part of the IRC community, they also feel they have nothing to do with a website like this that reports about the IRC community.
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Asmo
It's nice to see that IRC networks now "screw the little guy." Just because a project exists, it now means they get first preference? That's absurd! Just as an example, I've been using the name "codemastr" since 1996. I didn't register codemastr.com until about 2002. So now, if I had #codemastr since 1996, and in 2001 someone registered codemastr.com I have to give them my channel? Don't they understand how copyright works? Owning a domain doesn't mean you own a copyright. I've been using codemastr since 1996 (and I can prove it), so if someone registered codemastr.com in 2002, that doesn't mean they get the copyright, I still have it! And for that matter, I could even have a registered (legally binding) copyright on the name "codemastr" without ever buying a domain. Owning a domain has *nothing* to do with owning a copyright and the fact that freenode is making this assumption is horrible.
You ask if "they" understand how copyrights work, yet it is blatantly obvious you don't. You have NO copyright on codemastr. You might have a TRADEMARK on it, but you don't have a copyright on it.
Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 2
Location: irc.equalslashed.net
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:53 pm?? ?Post subject:
FreeNode needs to spend less time forumlating new ridiculous policies and more time stabilizing their IRC network. Why create such a policy? To keep the staff busy because they have nothing better to do?
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 23
Location: United States
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:28 am?? ?Post subject:
beretta wrote:
You ask if "they" understand how copyrights work, yet it is blatantly obvious you don't. You have NO copyright on codemastr. You might have a TRADEMARK on it, but you don't have a copyright on it.
You need to learn the difference.
I am QUITE familiar with the difference. What you need to learn is the difference between the United States and the world. You are absolutely correct, in the United States, a copyright cannot be used to protect a word, short phrase, slogan, title, name, and a few other things; that's the realm of trademarks. However, in some countries, those things fall under the category of an artistic creation which can be copyrighted.
One example would be Australia. Under Australian law, there is nothing that specifies a name cannot be copyrighted. There are very few instances of it (the courts have basically rejected the concept), but it is legally possible there. There are some other countries that allow it as well, but I don't feel like listing them all.
Additionally, I'd like to point out that, even under US law you have a trademark wrong. "codemastr" cannot be registered as a trademark in the US. From the US patent office, a trademark is "a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others." This definition is very similar in all countries for which I've seen IP laws. The name must be linked to a product. The name "codemastr" does not in anyway identify or distinguish any product/service and therefore cannot be registered as a trademark. Hence why one would, in countries that allow it, claim the name as an artistic creation and apply for a copyright, not a trademark. Is it rare? Yes, extremely. However, it is the only legal way to protect such a name, at least the only way I know of.
So before you come on here and tell me it is "blatantly obvious" that I don't know what I'm talking about, make sure all of your facts are straight.
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-- codemastr
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 11
Location: irc.majestic-liaisons.com
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:37 am?? ?Post subject:
codemastr wrote:
One example would be Australia. Under Australian law, there is nothing that specifies a name cannot be copyrighted. There are very few instances of it (the courts have basically rejected the concept), but it is legally possible there.
actually there you are completely wrong. the only way a name can be used under copywrite in Australia is the way the words/name are written, EG "Codemastr" could be Copywrited but "Codemastr" could not. the reason the first could be is because of how it is written, with the red italics then blue.
To protect the actual Phrase/Name would come under the Trademark Laws in Australia.
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Majestic Liaisons Adult Chat - IRC , Java
actually there you are completely wrong. the only way a name can be used under copywrite in Australia is the way the words/name are written, EG "Codemastr" could be Copywrited but "Codemastr" could not. the reason the first could be is because of how it is written, with the red italics then blue.
To protect the actual Phrase/Name would come under the Trademark Laws in Australia.
beretta wrote:
You ask if "they" understand how copyrights work, yet it is blatantly obvious you don't. You have NO copyright on codemastr. You might have a TRADEMARK on it, but you don't have a copyright on it.
You need to learn the difference.
I believe the respect factor just leaped off the charts.
Instead of you people coming on here to blatantly bash codemastr for having an opinon, whether correct or not, maybe you should offer your corrections in a manner that doesn't make you look like a jackass, especially when you are proven wrong.
I personally don't see how anyone could become so defensive on this subject.
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:53 am?? ?Post subject:
Internet, and especially IRC and media like Forums work that way ;)
Its hard to see what type of person sits behind that bit of text you are reading. I have been chatting for years with people on IRC over deep topics, and the way they also overall present themself made me believe they were at least at a stage in life I am in. But then found out they were 16 ...
OTOH quite the opposite happens too ofcourse. And overall, you will find people who just argue without listening or appreciating other people's opinions, or not accepting any other opinion then their own. Or people who havent yet learned to listen to others.
So far since I opened the possibility to comment or this forum on this ste, I have been quite pleased with how things go, and havent yet had to do a lot of stepping in (aside of something that was *about to become* nasty a few days ago...).
I guess we can say that the average IRC-Junkie visitor is a well behaving netizen! =D
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Asmo
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 23
Location: United States
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:55 am?? ?Post subject:
Quote:
could be Copywrited
No offense, but you tell me I'm wrong, yet you don't even know the word! It's a copyRIGHT (as in the right to copy) not copywrite. But anyway, as I said, under Australian law (and most other nations), a name can only be trademarked if it is associated with a product and/or service. Therefore, "codemastr" could not be copyrighted. This is why, for example, Apple Computer has a trademark on Apple and so does Apple Corps. Apple Computer can use the word with respect to computers and Apple Corps can use it with respect to music. Neither "owns" the word "Apple" they each have rights to use the word, they simply have the rights to use it in association with different products. Neither would have a valid claim in trying to sue a produce company for selling an apple at the local supermarket because neither owns that word. With a copyright, you actually own the work, that's very different than a trademark. But I will admit, I'm far from an expert on Australian law, so I won't claim to have my facts 100% correct, however, from the research I have done, it appears what I have said is valid.
Quote:
Instead of you people coming on here to blatantly bash codemastr for having an opinon, whether correct or not, maybe you should offer your corrections in a manner that doesn't make you look like a jackass, especially when you are proven wrong.
I get people trying to bash my opinions (both on IRC and in real life) so often that it doesn't even bother me at all anymore. On average, people yell at me at least 2-3 hours each day. After awhile, you just get used to it. I guess this is simply a natural consequence of studying politics
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-- codemastr
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